So, about 20 years ago, Jessica Mulligan and I met with the folks at AOL (back before they were incredibly successful) to talk about doing games for them. After the meeting, we were told by one of the really forward-thinking guys there that (wait for it) “Online games are a niche market and that they didn’t believe in them”. Well, obviously they were wrong, though in all fairness it took a while for online games to really take off. So, I thought, what a perfect title for this blog.
Mark
Filed under: MMORPGS | Tagged: games, mmorpg, mmorpgs, mmos, online games
Nice read and I sincerely hope WAR will succeed.
Hope for more interesting posts in the future.
And yeah if you talk to Zach tell him the guys over at EB are wondering where he’s gone off to =)
Good read.
Has the mentality always been to conquer WoW? I remember a half-drunk Friday night talking with some fellow developers (we do advertising sites, not games) about what it would mean to pull in 2% of the market. For an Indie, that would be a huge profit. Course we’d need a VC or two to setup infrastructure and all…
But seriously, what is considered a success? I certainly hope your definition doesn’t include “beating WoW” While it would be nice as far as cash goes, and as far as Mythic as a company goes, does that send the industry in the right direction? Does that do anything other than what WoW does?
What percent market share, or subscriber count is a success?
I’m fascinated by the picky dynamics and the player mentality metamorphosis in this industry. You can’t really duplicate it in any other game genre.
LOL, I’m one of the few MMORPG developers who has said he isn’t expecting/trying to beat WoW’s numbers. When we were talking to EA prior to the acquisition, I made it clear that I wasn’t designing WAR to go after the same market share as WoW. It’s not that I don’t know how it, it’s just that I didn’t want to spend all the extra time and money it would take and even then, there’s no guarantee.
What is considered a success by me? If we get 1M paying monthly subs in North America and Europe, I’ll be thrilled.
Great read, I never got to play DAOC but after playing war in the CB and PW, you have me totally hooked.
Always love reading your posts and articles, keep em up!
Makes me wonder where that guy from AOL got off too? Is he selling Hurricane insurance in Milwaukee now or what?
I agree that WAR needs to succeed or the MMO market will be hurt. Fortunately having played just in t he preview weekend I have to say I have a “good feeling” about this game.
Is Imperator going back under development?
Camoking – Sweet jesus I hope so. We need a Sci-Fi game that doesn’t suck wind so bad it’s not funny… wait, it is kind of funny but dammit!
We, no I NEED a Sci-Fi MMO.
*chants*
Imperator, Imperator, Imperator!
Damn I wish I didn’t learn of that Sci Fi MMO that never took off. I’ve been yearning for a good Sci-fi guns blazing MMO since Planetside. Tabula Rasa wasn’t great because they didn’t allow the character any control *Sticky targeting sucks in an MMO, FPSMMO’s (Planetside) ftw.*
But other this that AOL sucked, I hated them ever since down my first online game Zealot Trivia… Praan Blugg Cartel FOREVER!
Haha, very nice name. =)
And I can see where you aren’t aiming to defeat WoW. But, I think you could match(or get close) Warcraft’s subscriptions over some time with Warhammer.
Honostly, I don’t see any way that Warhammer could not get over 1 million subscriptions. Playing the game, it was great. For a beta, everything worked very well. Warhammer appears to have everything and more, and really the only thing I could see hurting it is balancing issues which shouldn’t be much of a problem for you guys.
Keep on keepin’ on, Mark and Mythic,
stewie-Y
Mythic earned my respect a long time ago and with WAR they just comfirm that they ‘ve learned from past mistake.
I wish (and I know it will) WAR to succeed because the market need competition and diversity.
See you all in WAR for the HS.
Thanks for the blog and the post. One thing i am concerned about is you said 6 months… is that your ideal target?? personally i look at a game to play as a 1-2 year investment. I have played, EQ, EQ2, WoW, VG, GW, and a (what was the term you used more fingers on all the umpire hands at a baseball game??) of free to play MMO’s that i know it is incredible hard to get a game right the first time and that if you as a developer dont it hurts you more then you can repair (look at VG).
I hope your designing War to be a long term investment not just for you but for the MMO community also. i want to say ten years from now on the anniversary that i was there before it started. I gladly said say this for EQ’s upcoming 10th and hope to see you and everyone else in ten years with WAR!!!!!
Now open those doors i have keeps to besiege and destruction to smite….!!!!!
Welcome to the world of blogging!
Something else to tear at your soul…hehe,
Random Thought…I wish one my Fiscal Year ‘09 Goals to better help my company would be to write a blog!
Maybe I need move from DC to Fairfax…
20 years ago, el oh el.
Online games on AOL and CompuServe. Memories. Air Warrior. I still miss that game!
Wow – I heard the same thing last year when I was an employee. The exact wording was, “People do not play games online.” This despite my business model showing the explosive growth of WoW, CS, and so on.
Some things never change.
[...] like I am not the only one that heard this line from AOL [...]
awesome, was hoping you’d start a blog, mark.
Reminds me of AOL and Simutronics coming together to market Gemstone III on aol as a portal. It opened up a very insular gaming community to the masses, as in, perhaps another 1,000 to 2,000 players. heh…masses… The old guard were all so po’d. The internet in the early days was filled with so much nerdy fun, nerdy drama, nerdy intrigue. Good times.
Indeed, good to hear your thoughts again. You’ve been too busy making games and not enough pontificating!
Scott: No, as I recall, the person who said that was Steve Case, who was then echoed by his VPs. He made a bit of change off of AOL and only goes to Milwaukee to sneer at the peasants,
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Thankfully, Bill Louden at GEnie had more vision hen it came to online gaming and contracted with Mark for a couple games, including Dragon’s Gate, which became one of the top games on GEnie rather quickly after launch. God, I miss those days,
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Jess! Hey, thanks for stopping by. I miss those days to though I don’t miss being one step away from broke most of that time.
Ah, the glory days of Spellbinder and DF:C. I’m really glad to see the fighting in WAR go all the way back to the homeland. That is something that I wish made the transition from DF:C to DAOC. Nothing like a mad rush back to town when fourteen familiars are triggered and two walls destroyed.
A few friends of mine tried to recreate Spellbinder using the Half Life 2 engine and failed miserably. IronDragon had a pretty nice start on his, but it just didn’t have the feel that Spellbinder did. Mythic put a lot of love in that game.
What I’d give to play just one more round…
I am impressed with how Mythic has evolved with DAoC and on to Warhammer; it’s not even 14 September, and I am already drooling for the first expansion. After 6+ months in the closed beta, I know there is still tons of content I have yet to experience but this game’s design and how far you guys have come throughout beta is really a credit to the organization. That, and having the stones to leave some content and classes out of release because they weren’t fully tested. While it won’t kill WoW, it’s certainly going to snap a ton of players out of their PvE grind fest over there to play a much more rewarding game. I beta’ed WoW and to a lesser extent, SWG among others, and WAR is more complete than any game I have tested. Christ, I am gushing like a fan boy, let me stop that. Bravo, and keep Making Mine Mythic.
I forget its been so long ago, but didn’t AOL have some fledgling d&d type mud almost mmo, but I was hard set against AOL’s version of the internet. They were really one of the first company’s to market internet to the masses, only other one I remember was Prodigy. Yeah I just dated myself, It really was tubes and wires back then! lol @ dialup.
Well. 640kb should be enough =)
Thumbs up for an honest blog. Kudos for the well written articles.
Here’s +1 subscriber from Asia to your US subscription numbers from an old DAOC fan.
Jessica Mulligan: Thanks for the reply. Somehow it doesn’t surprise me with Mr.Case. I wonder if people like him have regrets on things like that. Like in this case with Online gaming or the movie studios execs that passed up Star Wars as silly? Missing the boat on something huge in general.
GEnie was great. From the game to following J. Michael Strazynski (creator of Babylon 5). Those were the days!
mlesnews:
Mythic had a collection of games that they released over AOL and another online game distributor called Gamestorm. They included Magestorm (level based magic FPS), Splatterball (online paintball), Dragon’s Gate, and Darkness Falls (text based RPG), the father of Darkness Falls: the Crusade, the father of DAoC.
crazy sauce. AOL, so far ahead of its time it’s already got the demise of 21st century cyber connectivity in its battle plans.
too bad i live in the present and not to distant future, so i guess i’ll have to try this Warhammer thing out.
thanks for the post, Mark
~b
[...] Jacobs has hung out his shingle at a site entitled Online Games Are a Niche Market, a reference to a bad conversation he had with AOL execs back in the day. Hard to believe AOL could be shortsighted about anything.He’s already put up [...]
I find it equally as funny how the industry once tagged as a passing fad, is now becoming one of the industries most resistant to economic slowdown.
People still want to escape reality, especially when reality is looking bleak. Gaming may be to the ‘0X, as the silver screen was to the ’30s. . .
Mark: Come on, being near-broke builds character in a developer,
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Scott: Yeah, it was truly a golden era for MMOs, though it only lasted a few years. Thanks to Bill’s vision, we were able to sign a ton of games for GEnie. In my three year tenure there as games manager, we sign a dozen of them, though only about 6 actually launched.